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#31 RE:[Discussions] NVMe Support by Jest 15.04.2015 10:26

Chipset support 8 pcie lanes, which can be configured to 4x1 and 1x4. They are only 2.0, but can still get ~2GB/s in x4 config.

Oh, and i couldn't care less for obsolete x79.

#32 RE:[Discussions] NVMe Support by mr_nuub 15.04.2015 10:54

Zitat von Jest im Beitrag #24
Chipset support 8 pcie lanes, which can be configured to 4x1 and 1x4. They are only 2.0, but can still get ~2GB/s in x4 config.

Oh, and i couldn't care less for obsolete x79.

Theoretically ~2GB/s. 2GB/s is just the beginning of NVMe.
Please do not forget, that PCIe 3.0 is requiered for NVMe.
PCIe 2.0 is not supported and will never be.

I didn't want to insult you, I'm sorry. But If you want NVMe for Z77/Z87,
you really NEED PCIe 3.0. So you have to cut down GPU bandwidth or use the iGPU,
depending on your mainboard.

X79 is still a great platform. It's outdated, you're right.
But from this POV, Z77/Z87 are outdated, too.
BUT neither of them have reached EOL status.

#33 RE:[Discussions] NVMe Support by Jest 15.04.2015 11:27

I don't think pcie 3.0 is required, becasue NVMe was developed way before pcie 3.0 was introduced in final form.
Maybe some high end SSDs will support only pcie3.0, that is possible.

#34 RE:[Discussions] NVMe Support by mr_nuub 15.04.2015 11:58

Zitat von Jest im Beitrag #26
I don't think pcie 3.0 is required, becasue NVMe was developed way before pcie 3.0 was introduced in final form.
Maybe some high end SSDs will support only pcie3.0, that is possible.

Supermicro states, that NVMe is using PCIe Gen3: LINK
Here is a review of the Intel DC3700 NVMe SSD (for PCIe slot): LINK
From page 2 of the review:

Zitat
While the last generation Intel 910 series required a PCIe 2.0 x8 slot, the new DC P3700 only requires a PCIe 3.0 x4 slot and is not backwards compatible with the 2.0 standard. This halving of lanes not only allows servers to support more drives before running out of slots, but also makes finding a free slot on any supporting motherboard a lot easier. Obviously Intel feels that PCIe 3.0 has high enough market saturation for this step to be taken.



EDIT: Sure, the NVMHCI Work Group released the first specification (1.0) on March 1st, 2011.
The final PCIe 3.0 specification was released in 2012.
That does not mean, that they didn't use non-final drafts of the specification.
I didn't read the full NVMe specification, as everyone states "PCIe 3.0 is what you need for NVMe".

#35 RE:[Discussions] NVMe Support by Jest 15.04.2015 12:23

You can read here, the first NVMe devices used PCIe 2.0.
As i said, maybe some devices require pcie 3.0, some only recommend it for max performance. I don't think NVMe is tied to specific pcie version.

But it's hard to find some useful info on this topic, because it's all about marketing. You know, buy new motherborad,cpu,ram, but it may not be necessary.



If you scroll down to comments,, you can read, that one user used intel 750 on Z77 (pcie 2.0 slot) and its working, but not bootable. (link fixed)


And another thing (found this on anandtech)

Because the SSD 750 is a PCIe 3.0 design, it must be connected directly to the CPU's PCIe 3.0 lanes for maximum throughout. All the chipsets in Intel's current line up are of the slower PCIe 2.0 flavor, which would effectively cut the maximum throughput to half of what the SSD 750 is capable of. The even bigger issue is that the DMI 2.0 interface that connects the platform controller hub (PCH) to the CPU is only four lanes wide (i.e. up to 2GB/s), so if you connect the SSD 750 to the PCH's PCIe lanes and access other devices connected to the PCB (e.g. USB, SATA or LAN) at the same time the performance would be even further handicapped.

#36 RE:[Discussions] NVMe Support by mr_nuub 15.04.2015 12:38

There is simply only one consumer NVMe SSD series out there.
This is the Intel SSD 750 series and they need PCIe 3.0.
All other NVMe SSDs are for enterprise systems and I doubt that these systems will be modded.
Furthermore, enterprise NVMe SSDs are very expensive.

Stalemate dude. There are PCIe 2.0 NVMe SSDs, but not for the consumer market.

Let's just see, what ASUS does about this issue.

EDIT: this happens when I click your link:

Zitat
An error occurred!
The page you were looking for does not exist or you do not have the right to access this page.
Back to Forum overview

#37 RE:[Discussions] NVMe Support by CodeRush 16.04.2015 20:18

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I've made some additional research towards AMI's NVMe driver:
1. UEFI portion is a normal UEFI bus driver without any exceptional dependencies. This means that you can borrow it from the newer BIOS versions for Z97 boards and integrate into older P67+ ones. I don't know if AptioV drivers will work in Aptio4 BIOS or not, it should be tested.
2. Legacy portion requires a BLOB to extend int 13h handler and an SMM driver to help on that, so I'm sure you can't add legacy NVMe support into the BIOS without recompilation.
3. Setup strings for NVMe are also integrated into TSE binary during compilation, so they can't be added either, but there are nothing interesting there, only the name and capacity of the detected device.

So, if your board is able to run UEFI storage drivers (like Intel SATA driver or AMI AHCI driver), it should also be able to boot from NVMe device after adding a driver, but only in UEFI mode.

#38 RE:[Discussions] NVMe Support by mr_nuub 16.04.2015 20:37

Zitat von CodeRush im Beitrag #30
I've made some additional research towards AMI's NVMe driver:
1. UEFI portion is a normal UEFI bus driver without any exceptional dependencies. This means that you can borrow it from the newer BIOS versions for Z97 boards and integrate into older P67+ ones. I don't know if AptioV drivers will work in Aptio4 BIOS or not, it should be tested.
2. Legacy portion requires a BLOB to extend int 13h handler and an SMM driver to help on that, so I'm sure you can't add legacy NVMe support into the BIOS without recompilation.
3. Setup strings for NVMe are also integrated into TSE binary during compilation, so they can't be added either, but there are nothing interesting there, only the name and capacity of the detected device.

So, if your board is able to run UEFI storage drivers (like Intel SATA driver or AMI AHCI driver), it should also be able to boot from NVMe device after adding a driver, but only in UEFI mode.


ASRock Z97 Extreme6 has AMI Aptio 4 BIOS and NVMe support.
Aptio 4: confirmed with UBU
NVMe: confirmed on BIOS download page

#39 RE:[Discussions] NVMe Support by lordkag 16.04.2015 21:53

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Does that mean that NvmeInt13 and NvmeSmm are for legacy use only? And for UEFI, is there any benefit between AMI and EDK2 driver? And if someone adds this driver, should it be with AMI GUID (634E8DB5-C432-43BE-A653-9CA2922CC458) or any GUID? (Edit: I'm seeing the GUID 5BE3BDF4-53CF-46a3-A6A9-73C34A6E5EE3 in NvmExpressDxe.inf, is this the one to use?) Should it have have the same dependency, PcdDxe, if I'm not mistaken?

#40 RE:[Discussions] NVMe Support by CodeRush 17.04.2015 09:30

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I was wrong about NvmeSmm not required for UEFI - it definitely is, DXE driver transfers the whole data into SMRAM after initialization. NvmeInt13 appears to be separated from CSM16 build process, i.e. it should also work in previous Aptio4 BIOSes without recompilation. GUIDs are totally irrelevant and can be changed freely. PcdDxe dependency is not needed because AMI doesn't use non-fixed PCDs for their modules.
The only problem I have now is the lack of NVMe devices to test any available driver, so I don't know if AMI driver is better or worse that TianoCore one.

#41 RE:[Discussions] NVMe Support by mr_nuub 17.04.2015 09:37

Zitat von CodeRush im Beitrag #33
I was wrong about NvmeSmm not required for UEFI - it definitely is, DXE driver transfers the whole data into SMRAM after initialization. NvmeInt13 appears to be separated from CSM16 build process, i.e. it should also work in previous Aptio4 BIOSes without recompilation. GUIDs are totally irrelevant and can be changed freely. PcdDxe dependency is not needed because AMI doesn't use non-fixed PCDs for their modules.
The only problem I have now is the lack of NVMe devices to test any available driver, so I don't know if AMI driver is better or worse that TianoCore one.

I am willing to test it, like I mentioned before. I just need 2 weeks to order a drive and receive it (yep, austrian mail service is slow).
As long as I can revert to my current BIOS everything should be fine.

#42 RE:[Discussions] NVMe Support by oddbjorn 17.04.2015 13:51

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SkOrPn: You mentioned that you have the ASUS NVMe rom. Would it be complicated to include this rom in the latest ASUS P8Z77-V UEFI (v2104)? If not; would you mind sharing it?
I would love to get my Intel 750 bootable on my old Z77 motherboard... :)

#43 RE:[Discussions] NVMe Support by SkOrPn 17.04.2015 20:57

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Zitat von oddbjorn im Beitrag #9
SkOrPn: You mentioned that you have the ASUS NVMe rom. Would it be complicated to include this rom in the latest ASUS P8Z77-V UEFI (v2104)? If not; would you mind sharing it?
I would love to get my Intel 750 bootable on my old Z77 motherboard... :)

All I did was download an Asus BIOS that already has NVMe support. You can do the same thing. I have not tried extracting it from the bios as of yet. Just download a BIOS from one of their current ROG series, it should have NVMe already built in.

#44 RE:[Discussions] NVMe Support by lordkag 17.04.2015 22:16

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@mr_nuub

If you have the hardware and willing to put it in the line of fire, ignoring all outcomes, without coming here to complain that we've ruined a very priced hardware, then I can provide some test files. There are some risks, you should know from the beginning. Last time I advised someone to borrow some Marvell EFI drivers from AptioV to his Asrock X79, I remember he had boot problems. And it was only DXE drivers, not as dangerous as SMM or Int13. Maybe the EDK2 driver is safer, but you have to find someone to compile it from the latest sources, because I have a very old version. Not sure if the one from Clover is good.

If you are up to it, we can start with EDK2 only, move to AMI without SMM or Int13, then AMI + Int13 + SMM. But you might as well ask Asrock for a beta BIOS, it will be a win-win situation for all.

#45 RE:[Discussions] NVMe Support by lordkag 17.04.2015 22:25

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But those are AMI drivers and compiled from AMI sources with some OEM modifications for specific line of boards. You are lucky if you can get them to work in the first place, let alone to actually run them bug free. An independent version can be found on then official site. The one that you want is UEFI Driver, which points to EDK2 sources.

Speaking of NVMe, when is Intel releasing a chipset with NVMe support? Because an Intel RST NVME UEFI Driver is already in the wild.

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