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#241 RE: Windows 98SE on Modern Hardware by badconduct 11.03.2021 19:28

Alright, I'm trying this in ESXi. No luck so far.

Trying this on ESXi 7.0, built a Wind98SE VM from the ISO.
Main System:
ThreadRipper 1920X
64GB
Asus Prime X399-A

Used PCIe Passthrough with a GT 6600 PCIe, tried a 6800 prior with no luck.
No luck in my case with the 6600. I installed the updated driver for the card, it did detect it but couldn't initialize it.

I'm grabbed a PCIe 1x to 2 PCI slot adapter, I'm going to test any PCI card and just see if it works or not, before I rule out whether it's an issue with Win98SE in ESXi reading the PCIe card, or reading that particular 6600.

I may switch to Qemu and test again, or even Oracle Virtual Box in Ubuntu and see if the passthrough works there. I suspect it's an issue with Windows 98SE using the card, judging by the error, since it can read and identify it. I tried disabling the video and monitor driver from advanced, thinking there was potentially a conflict in there.
I've done my main GPU on a Win10 box with no issues, so I know it's related to Windows98, drivers or the way VMware handles it.

#242 RE: Windows 98SE on Modern Hardware by onuracengiz 11.03.2021 19:51

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Unofficial Windows 98 Second Edition Service Pack contains all Windows98 SE updates from the Windows Update site and more.

While Unofficial Windows 98 Second Edition Service Pack has been downloaded many times and used with great success, please note that you use this at your own risk.

You should at least back up your registry.

Beyond that, you should have both your original Windows 98se DVD or files. We recommend you have a system image, something most users of older Windows are used to having. We recommend Acronis True Image or checking your hard drive manufacturer to see if they offer a free drive backup app.

Unofficial Windows 98 Second Edition Service Pack 3.65
Official Website

#243 RE: Windows 98SE on Modern Hardware by ruthan 11.03.2021 20:49

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Zitat
even Oracle Virtual Box in Ubuntu and see if the passthrough works there


Any source for this claim?

Zitat
Main System:
ThreadRipper 1920X
Asus Prime X399-A



Havent these first Thread Rippers some IOMMMU issues as had first Ryzen boards?

Zitat
Alright, I'm trying this in ESXi?


Any reason why you are trying this instead of Qemu, some advantages? Do you using it at the work for it what? I this version for free?

Are there some ESXi success stories with Win98 videcard passthrough, or you are first guinea pig?

#244 RE: Windows 98SE on Modern Hardware by badconduct 11.03.2021 21:32

6.0 documentation, 2.5. PCI Passthrough

Maybe, I have 3Dmark results with GPU passthrough. I couldn't get the onboard USB controllers working though.

Yes, license through school. Also a lot of work experience. I'm not particularly committed to any hypervisor. I just know it, know it has passthrough and tried it first.

#245 RE: Windows 98SE on Modern Hardware by infuscomus 12.03.2021 15:55

@badconduct

have you thought about installing win98 on bare metal? I successfully did this with an AMD Ryzen 2700x system using rloew's patches

https://rloewelectronics.com/
https://archive.org/search.php?query=cre...olph+R.+Loew%22

R.I.P rloew

#246 RE: Windows 98SE on Modern Hardware by ruthan 12.03.2021 20:26

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@infuscomus - You can do that, but there are couple of problems:
- you still need additional Windows 98 SE compatible videocard + additional monitor cables
- you will probably need some special bios profile for Win98 and switch it before boot OS..
- you also need PCI slot for Windows 98 sound card, or some ugly PCI-E to PCI adapter, or maybe USB sound card - rLoew used one, but i have doubs how they are reliable for gaming.. and it needs some Win98 compatible addional USB controller..
- you also need some Win98 compatible NIC, again you can maybe use USB one
- even than with this chipset sound with Win 98 dos mode will not work, because it needs chipset supports..
- no pure MS-DOS with sound - again it needs chipset support
- no modern internet browsing..

It has advantages run it just as virtual too, i have some Win98 bare metal gaming machines, it make sense up to X58 chipset which has 2 PCI slots, last one working with full PCI - DOS / Win9x sound is X79 (1 PCI slot), PCI-E to PCI controllers are not solution.. otherwise only you use are lucky and get LPT port you can have Adlib sound, with some patched games..

BTW, i tried to find ESXi license for home use, but read that free license is too limited, so you need VMware vSphere 6 Essentials Plus Kit for 3 hosts (up to 32 virtual pcs) and i found it for 4000$ :( even with some sale its not for retro gaming, it maybe sense for some admin in training. Im using Vmware Workstation for things, but 100-200$, but of course no bare metal virtualization and videocards through. For me personally, i actually prefer full OS (Linux) in comparison with some VMware ESXi control console, full blown desktop Linux could maybe have some occasional cpu peaks, but full beside these virtualized is also advantage.

#247 RE: Windows 98SE on Modern Hardware by infuscomus 13.03.2021 02:15

@ruthan

I ended up using a PCI-E 6600GT for graphics, a moschip PCI-E USB 2.0 card for USB.
NIC was a realtek chip that had a native win98 driver.
AHCI worked with rloews driver.
Sound with an AOPEN YMF744 PCI card over an external PCI-E to PCI adapter.
No sound when booted into DOS mode but thats expected.

#248 RE: Windows 98SE on Modern Hardware by ruthan 13.03.2021 04:34

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Zitat
NIC was a realtek chip that had a native win98 driver.


This is interesting, i never saw Realtek gigabit chip working in Win98. I know that there is some realtek driver, but never worked for me and other people afaik. I know that there are hack how to use Reatek Dos driver for Windows 98, but it has lots of flaws.

Zitat
Sound with an AOPEN YMF744 PCI card over an external PCI-E to PCI adapter.


How you managed put it into case? Because that is main problem with all these adapters, they are fine for some test bench, but other they are making big mess inside case..

#249 RE: Windows 98SE on Modern Hardware by infuscomus 13.03.2021 06:26

@ruthan

I couldn't fit it inside the PC case, mine came with it's own external enclosure though so I decided to just leave it in that enclosure outside the PC case.

#250 RE: Windows 98SE on Modern Hardware by ruthan 13.03.2021 10:25

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Ok, do you have picture and exact type of it and upload you upload that working Realtek Gigabit driver?

#251 RE: Windows 98SE on Modern Hardware by infuscomus 13.03.2021 11:18

@ruthan

a picture of the enclosure? - http://eshop.sintech.cn/images/4%20(1).jpg



attached the win98 driver

#252 RE: Windows 98SE on Modern Hardware by qwerty121121 07.06.2021 03:53

Maybe this info gonna be helpful. According to intel x58 of lga1366 and b75, q75, q77 of 1155 are last natively supporting PCI via chipset. (If newer then it's gonna be some pcie -> pci bridge on motherboard)

Check article on wiki named "List of Intel chipsets" (there are links to ark's pages and shown which chipsets are supporting PCI (not all of them in each gen)). I wasn't able to find anything about amd.

Btw I've got hands on x800 gto2 gonna test on days. :)

Edit: Ops, I've seen that you already have it seen.

#253 RE: Windows 98SE on Modern Hardware by POE_UK 28.07.2021 05:11

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Ive got 98 working on my am3 phenom II quad core system, however there is zero power management, meaning my cpu draws 130watts all the time and all my pcie lanes are drawing maximum power at all times

#254 RE: Windows 98SE on Modern Hardware by ruthan 28.07.2021 12:20

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With CPU power management maybe can help Bios setting, i dunno if also Phenom as number of cores settings (Win 98 are using only first one) and bios profiles.

#255 RE: Windows 98SE on Modern Hardware by POE_UK 05.09.2021 08:45

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Theres no cool n quiet drivers for 98/ME on am2/am3, without this the cpu gobbles up 95 to 130watts, maybe someone has made a driver but ive never found one, nforce3 ultra was the last supported chipset, and trust me, nforce on 98 is a very bad idea, SiS and ULi/ALi (Acer) chipsets work the best.

Simply put, keep things period correct on 98, Windows ME also has full dos support but microsoft disabled it to get people used to win 2K, dos on ME is easy to get back though with a few mouse clicks and 5 minutes of your time.
From experience i can tell ya, the 9x kernel cannot handle hardware properly past circa 2004/5

The best intel boards for 98 are: DFI LANPARTY PRO 875B and the ABIT IC7 MAX3
For AMD my high recommendations are the ASUS K8V SE DELUXE and the Winfast K8S755A REV:1.3

Jetway and ECS elitegroup were budget boards, however they made some of the best for 9x

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