This is continue of disscussion of them Vogons Qemu 3Dfx thread..
https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=60950

Here are projects github links:
https://github.com/kjliew/qemu-3dfx
https://github.com/kjliew/qemu-xtra

Here is our compatibility testing sheet with all info:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...dit?usp=sharing


Edit by Fernando: Thread title shortened (can be re-edited by the opener)

I would like to heard, still some your options about my last question on Vogons..

BTW i tested even heavier stuff from point of performance Doom 3 patched for Win98 and got only 15 FPS, i excepted something better.. Kjliew wrote that its project could be us better results than KVM.. but for this even with faster CPU (9900K(95W, intel Core i gen 9) vs 6500T(35W intel Core i gen6 + Geforce 6600)), im getting much better results with KVM.
Geforce 6600LE + Core i5 6500T KVM : Windows 98SE on Modern Hardware (12) - Doom III 18(1600x1200)/38 (800x600) FPS in timedemo. 6600Le is not faster Windows 98 videocard, i later made 6600GT working with is maybe 2x faster, but it not re run benchmakrs with it, i wasnt successfull with Geforce 6800, but maybe someone will be.

But is only one benchmark, its hard to compare the rest, because other games are tested and it most of them, i got some vsynch or internal FPS cap even performance was max with KVM. There are few games, which not hit it and these need to retesting with Qemu 3Dfx to make comparision.

I added kjLiew results - all from videos to online sheet in special kjliew column, because there are only one from Linux which we have.. it would be good for comparison with more machines later.
Ignored synthetic benchmarks, because it reduced scope and im not big fan of them. i like games more, but if someone want to invest time can add them himself.

@Fernando Done

Zitat von ruthan im Beitrag #2

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I would like to heard, still some your options about my last question on Vogons..

BTW i tested even heavier stuff from point of performance Doom 3 patched for Win98 and got only 15 FPS, i excepted something better.. Kjliew wrote that its project could be us better results than KVM.. but for this even with faster CPU (9900K(95W, intel Core i gen 9) vs 6500T(35W intel Core i gen6 + Geforce 6600)), im getting much better results with KVM.
Geforce 6600LE + Core i5 6500T KVM : Windows 98SE on Modern Hardware (12) - Doom III 18(1600x1200)/38 (800x600) FPS in timedemo. 6600Le is not faster Windows 98 videocard, i later made 6600GT working with is maybe 2x faster, but it not re run benchmakrs with it, i wasnt successfull with Geforce 6800, but maybe someone will be.

But is only one benchmark, its hard to compare the rest, because other games are tested and it most of them, i got some vsynch or internal FPS cap even performance was max with KVM. There are few games, which not hit it and these need to retesting with Qemu 3Dfx to make comparision.

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Zitat

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Back when you did PCI Passthrough you were using Linux. QEMU is much better tested on Linux than Windows. Is possible than it works significantly better there, be it more performance or less bugs.

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That you are wrote make sense, but lets but numbers besides, there could be many surprises.

Zitat von zir_blazer im Beitrag #6

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(Hosts can\'t natively process Glide, so I suppose they get converted to OpenGL by the wrapper?

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Zitat

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Also, QEMU without CPU virtualization shouldn't be better than PCem, since both pay the price for emulating the CPU, but QEMU is worse on the emulation of era-accurate Devices. If you use QEMU, you are using it precisely due to its CPU virtualization capabilities, or PCI Passthrough.

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Again that is forecast, but hard numbers would be better, there is stupid problem PCem has not inbuild FPS counter as far i know (i could be wrong and host machine is using only some external window refresh rate - 500 FPS), you can only measure games with inbuild benchmarks or at least inbuild FPS counter.

On Windows is really big boots when i enable WHPX acceleration - im getting in Windows virtual + 5 time more performance in games, there is also HAX for intel procesors, primary made for some Android device emulation and building apps, or something like that. Its not working with present Qemu Windows machine - crash when desktop should be loaded, its working in Dos, but a cant really test it because im using it on Beefy CPU and these games are mostly locked to 60 FPS and i haveit even without any accelerator.

BTW you are right person to write something about Linux acceleration options for Qemu, i few times tried to mess with these parameters and but never saw so Signiant boost and on windows with WHPX and Windows virtual.
In all my scrips i have this:

-machine type=pc,accel=kvm \
-cpu host,kvm=off \
 

KVM is here listed as accel and in second line, is kvm=off because of Nvidia cards i thing, but it looks strange. Are there any other alternatives or additional options?

On Linux you have only two options, accel=tcg (TCG, Tiny Code Generation. CPU Emulation like PCem or MAME. If you don't specify that you want KVM it uses TCG by default) or accel=kvm (KVM, Kernel Mode Virtualization, CPU Virtualization like any other VMM). kvm=off in -cpu is totally unnecessary UNLESS you are doing PCI Passthrough of a GeForce, it just hide some CPUID values.

PCem allows you to try to match the performance of what a specific Processor should be, as if it was aiming for cycle accurate emulation like MAME. QEMU has no such way to limit performance. If you provide a VM with a virtualized CPU you are actually giving it as much performance as a Core of a modern Processor may provide. And the difference between a Pentium 2 or K6-II core @ 300 MHz to a Intel Skylake or AMD Zen running @ 4 GHz should be like, 15-20 times more the raw performance?

this reminds me the times before XNA even released.when people were trying to boost up directx and its dynamics with opengl,either using .net or c++ etc simply put opengl/direct3d wrappers or injectors. now i cant event even remember most of their names.but it might help you or others in someway maybe,therefore i will add them as i recall since code already includes glide and dos wrappers

Emugen's wrappers list from wine to d8tod9 dll wrappers
SharpDX .net wrapper of directx api
MonoGame XNA implementation for Linux
DXVK A Vulkan-based translation layer for Direct3D 9/10/11 which allows running 3D applications on Linux using Wine
dgVoodoo2 GoG also using the same code
ReShade dll and shader injection
DOSBox linux and windows opengl emulation
DirectX Tweaker
DirectX Legacy (3.0, 5.2, 6.1, 7.0, 8.0, 8.1, and 8.2)
Microsoft DirectX June 2010
Microsoft OpenCL and OpenGL Compatibility Pack
Custom Resolution Utility (CRU)
Windows Subsystem for Linux more on this topic dxgkrnl

Zitat

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QEMU has no such way to limit performance.

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This seems to source of one of present Qemu gaming problems, some games at least on Windows with HAX / WHPX or without run simply too slow or too fast, regardles of framerate - details are in my online sheet.. Im not expert here but my quess that emulation of some cpu timers is bugged. There are some Qemu - machine options for cpu XY, but i never got how it actually working, if only about change of CPU name + it define possible instruction set, or something like that, except instruction set, i dont thing that is limiting speed.

Zitat von ruthan im Beitrag #10

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There are some Qemu - machine options for cpu XY, but i never got how it actually working, if only about change of CPU name + it define possible instruction set, or something like that, except instruction set, i dont thing that is limiting speed.

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@zir_blazer Thanks for explanation, other issue what im not trying to solve is not good sound quality on Windows. If you look at author Linux view, sound quality seems to be better (clean i dont hear noise) even for old SB16:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl8InhZ...rMDSWd0A/videos
I have lots noise in sound ouput, in both Dos and Win9x guess, it could be maybe just bad Windows implementation.. but in Qemu 5.2 or 5 sound audio settings changed, i know that you are Linux guy, but you are cleary more fluent in searching documentations and parameters.

Im now using this for Dos:

-device sb16 ^
-device adlib ^
-machine pcspk-audiodev=pa,id=onboard ^
 

Last line is for PC speaker, when i try this im getting that something is not right warning message, but sound is working. What is interesting im geting this only when HAX accel is enabled, without accel with line starting lines im not gettings this error, with WHPX is also without message, but WHPX for DOS is even less stable:

audio: Device sb16: audiodev default parameter is deprecated, please specify audiodev=sdl
audio: Device adlib: audiodev default parameter is deprecated, please specify audiodev=sdl
 

I dunno really understand how parameters to set to get rid off this message.

And this for Win9x:

 -device AC97 ^
 

For i dont see any working, Win9x are accel are only working with WHPX, otherwise (hx) crash at windows desktop

If you have any idea what to try to make sound better i would glady test it.

I also finally also with new builds and knowledge was able to complete all benchmarks with PCem and Qemu3Dfx(no CPU all accel, HAX, WHPX) for both SW rendering and Dos 3Dfx - Q1 shareware for this test was replaced by Q1DOS which have 3dfx version and in Q2Dos were used also 3Dfx Opengl api too.

So now we have hard numbers at least for Dos - all at the bottom of sheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...dit?usp=sharing


I also made some quick Qemu3Dfx and PCem comparison table and added it too to original Qemu3Dfx sheet, here is just screenshot (my opinions):

I made second iteration of my WIndows 98 demos testing package (234 demos). Ihave to upload it to Dropbox, because its 18.7 GB (in 5 parts), Mega and Google drive free have only free 15 GB now, as far i know Dropbox would probably later stop to working because of too much traffic..

These demos, are not easy to find.. they are often on archive.org but, here download speed sucks and i found couple of them not working, they also need some data on cd which is not part of package, so i created supporting cd images (bin cue format ), some i had to search on some old game magazines cds. I tested 95% of installers from package myself and all working, only for some i had not right HW at the hand for quick testing.

Demos for 95% present for me why thing era was so great, you can quickly test lots of games, before you buy them on Gog, Steam.. or you would try to convert their to packages to Win98 friend ones, or trying to get old physical copy.

Other addition is that in filename / folder name is now list of supported graphics API - SW (=2d,No 3d acc ), OpenGL, GLide and D3D, that is handy some cards, which have problem with some apis, but mainly for emulation as Qemu3Dfx (where working mainly Glide and OpenGL) etc. because of number of games, there are probably some mistakes, which you can report to me through PM etc (i will update spoiler list here). I tested it just by Fraps 1.9D (which not support Glide, not shown counter for Opengl + D3D) + searching of game folders for dlls and game setups and games options, pcgamingwiki, manuals etc.

Here is demonstration biggest Qemu + 3dfx patch problem, after you manage to make some graphical api working.. and that is wrong game speed, regardless of high framerate, it has to be some Qemu bug.. Afaik, i every book / tutorial about game engines is chapter how to design proper timer and probably some implantations are hitting some Qemu design flaw / bugs, so timing is not right.