Forum - RE: [Guide] How Do I? : Modify a Polaris (Radeon RX Series) GPU.

#31 | RE: [Guide] How Do I? : Modify a Polaris (Radeon RX Series) GPU. datum

Mon May 18, 2020 12:21 pm

Zitat von elisw im Beitrag #30
@ket
thank you for the interesting guide.
I have a RX 570 with 4GB of SK Hynix vram:

I take both power limits and RAM speed could be approached in a slightly different manner.
without stealing your "magic", are there some specific aspects to be aware of?
TIA

@elisw everything you need to be aware of is covered in the guide really, if you don't want to use manual voltages with the card (and thus not keep having to select manual voltage mode in Wattman, if thats what you use) you can instead just use one of the voltage pointers and utilise the offset voltage to attain the desired voltage both with automatic and manual voltage modes. Usually I select an auto voltage pointer for 1.125v as thats around the optimal power draw/frequency in most cases and is certainly better than the auto voltages throwing high voltages at the card with frequencies that don't need it that is an extremely inefficient way of doing it and why unless there are tools by the time I need a new GPU I'll probably go nvidia again, RTG have much to improve upon.

"Ryzen Dawn"

AMD "Zen" 3700X | X570 Tomahawk | 2x16GB Kevv BoltX 3600MHz @ 18-20-20-18-35 2T 1.35v | Powercolor Red Devil 6800XT | 500GB Asgard M.2 NVMe SSD, 250GB Asgard M.2 NVMe SSD, 250GB SK Hynix SL301 SATA SSD, 2TB Seagate Barracuda | 24x Lite-On DVD-RW, 16x HP Blu-ray | Xonar DX 7.1 | EVGA Supernova G2 1000w

"Correct a wise man and he shall be grateful for the knowledge, correct a fool and he shall hate you."
"If you are presented with an opportunity to do some good, you should. Not to do so is irresponsible."

reply

#32 | RE: [Guide] How Do I? : Modify a Polaris (Radeon RX Series) GPU. datum

Tue May 19, 2020 8:13 pm (Last edited: Tue May 19, 2020 8:18 pm)

@ket
thank you for your help, to be honest I'm new in the GPU optimizations and I notice a few differences between the 580 you have shown and the 4GB 570:

in yellow I highlighted the values that are not in line with the guide: power and memory are lower to start with, so your 126W as minimum max power limit should be lowered.
the card has two Vbios(es) and my intention was to have a fully optimized Bios along with the original one.

reply

#33 | RE: [Guide] How Do I? : Modify a Polaris (Radeon RX Series) GPU. datum

Tue May 19, 2020 9:16 pm

Zitat von elisw im Beitrag #32
@ket
thank you for your help, to be honest I'm new in the GPU optimizations and I notice a few differences between the 580 you have shown and the 4GB 570:

in yellow I highlighted the values that are not in line with the guide: power and memory are lower to start with, so your 126W as minimum max power limit should be lowered.
the card has two Vbios(es) and my intention was to have a fully optimized Bios along with the original one.

@elisw As in the guide (or I think I mentioned it, if not I meant to) some cards have quite weak VRMs, below the AMD design spec, so you should not raise or lower their default TDC values while TDP should be adjusted accordingly. The lower memory limit is normal on 4GB 4/570s thats why I stated on 580s the stock frequency is 8GHz (8000MHz effective, or as PBE would show it 2000MHz) Only going to 2000MHz memory strap for Hynix memory is a new one though your card is the first I've seen only going to that, doesn't matter though, just means you won't have to deal with even shittier memory timings above 2000MHz. What kind of memory optimisation you aim for will depend on if you have a card that can overclock the memory well or not.

"Ryzen Dawn"

AMD "Zen" 3700X | X570 Tomahawk | 2x16GB Kevv BoltX 3600MHz @ 18-20-20-18-35 2T 1.35v | Powercolor Red Devil 6800XT | 500GB Asgard M.2 NVMe SSD, 250GB Asgard M.2 NVMe SSD, 250GB SK Hynix SL301 SATA SSD, 2TB Seagate Barracuda | 24x Lite-On DVD-RW, 16x HP Blu-ray | Xonar DX 7.1 | EVGA Supernova G2 1000w

"Correct a wise man and he shall be grateful for the knowledge, correct a fool and he shall hate you."
"If you are presented with an opportunity to do some good, you should. Not to do so is irresponsible."

reply

#34 | RE: [Guide] How Do I? : Modify a Polaris (Radeon RX Series) GPU. datum

Wed May 20, 2020 2:27 pm (Last edited: Wed May 20, 2020 2:44 pm)

@ket
you did mention the VRMs quality (about a Powercolor Red Dragon IIRC) but this is a different card: all 570s do have a lower TDP and power usage altogether.
What I mean is I doubt any 570 manufacturer will use the same power setting they use on their 580s.
this said the card I got is definitively an el cheapo version (although with hynix memory modules, at least), I'll try with some OC and see.
thanks again

reply

#35 | RE: [Guide] How Do I? : Modify a Polaris (Radeon RX Series) GPU. datum

Wed May 20, 2020 2:54 pm

@elisw to clarify a little more most 70s and 80s will have similar TDP/TDC settings the most likely occurrences of more significant changes will be with cheaply made versions and versions with one PCI-E connector instead of two. In your case you should be fine raising TDP up to 150w or 225w depending on if you have a card with just a 6 pin PCI-E connection or one with an 8pin. As it seems like you probably have a crappy VRM on the card optimising the amount of voltage the card uses will be vital in making sure the card throttles back as infrequently as possible. To have an idea at what the optimal voltage for your card is use GPU-Z to take a look at the cards ASIC quality, the higher it is the less voltage you will need. Typically 1.125v is the optimal voltage, to make the card use that for both manual and auto voltages you would input 65284 using PBE.

"Ryzen Dawn"

AMD "Zen" 3700X | X570 Tomahawk | 2x16GB Kevv BoltX 3600MHz @ 18-20-20-18-35 2T 1.35v | Powercolor Red Devil 6800XT | 500GB Asgard M.2 NVMe SSD, 250GB Asgard M.2 NVMe SSD, 250GB SK Hynix SL301 SATA SSD, 2TB Seagate Barracuda | 24x Lite-On DVD-RW, 16x HP Blu-ray | Xonar DX 7.1 | EVGA Supernova G2 1000w

"Correct a wise man and he shall be grateful for the knowledge, correct a fool and he shall hate you."
"If you are presented with an opportunity to do some good, you should. Not to do so is irresponsible."

reply

#36 | RE: [Guide] How Do I? : Modify a Polaris (Radeon RX Series) GPU. datum

Wed May 20, 2020 3:56 pm (Last edited: Wed May 20, 2020 9:56 pm)

Zitat von ket im Beitrag #35
@elisw to clarify a little more most 70s and 80s will have similar TDP/TDC settings the most likely occurrences of more significant changes will be with cheaply made versions and versions with one PCI-E connector instead of two.

nope.
if we take the Nitro+ (arguably one of the best cards for AMD) the 580 has a max power limit of 175W:
https://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/2041...0-8192-180719-1
while the lesser brother 570 (but still Nitro+) has a max power limit of 135W:
https://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/2058...0-8192-171019-1
which is much closer to the XFX I have than to its bigger sibling.

FWIW the card I have has an 8 pin PCI connector, but, reading your guide, my plan was about decreasing voltage and power use, not increasing it.
unfortunately I may have to change my plans: Asic rating is 75.3%; better than 38% of similar GPUs (below average then)

reply

#37 | RE: [Guide] How Do I? : Modify a Polaris (Radeon RX Series) GPU. datum

Thu May 21, 2020 2:12 pm

Zitat von elisw im Beitrag #36
Zitat von ket im Beitrag #35
@elisw to clarify a little more most 70s and 80s will have similar TDP/TDC settings the most likely occurrences of more significant changes will be with cheaply made versions and versions with one PCI-E connector instead of two.

nope.
if we take the Nitro+ (arguably one of the best cards for AMD) the 580 has a max power limit of 175W:
https://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/2041...0-8192-180719-1
while the lesser brother 570 (but still Nitro+) has a max power limit of 135W:
https://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/2058...0-8192-171019-1
which is much closer to the XFX I have than to its bigger sibling.

FWIW the card I have has an 8 pin PCI connector, but, reading your guide, my plan was about decreasing voltage and power use, not increasing it.
unfortunately I may have to change my plans: Asic rating is 75.3%; better than 38% of similar GPUs (below average then)

What I said is correct here, more cheaply made versions and/or versions with a 6 pin PCI-E connection instead of an 8 pin. 175w > 135w is a big difference; 30%. The 570 comes in more expensive flavours just like the 580 which is where your 570s come from with specs and limits almost/the same as a 580 but nobody really bought the more expensive 570s because they were only £/$20 or so cheaper than the 580s at the time but on a hardware level aside from a few missing CUs\shaders they were the same.

Or maybe a better way to explain it; AMD reference 570s used lower spec components and fewer VRMs as they were designed with a lower power draw in mind, all most AIBs did with the more expensive 570s is take a 580 PCB, perhaps leave off a few VRMs for cost saving and plonk a 570 GPU on in place of a 580 GPU, and thus your high end 570 is born with mostly 580 specs, which is what the Sapphire and XFX models there are.

"Ryzen Dawn"

AMD "Zen" 3700X | X570 Tomahawk | 2x16GB Kevv BoltX 3600MHz @ 18-20-20-18-35 2T 1.35v | Powercolor Red Devil 6800XT | 500GB Asgard M.2 NVMe SSD, 250GB Asgard M.2 NVMe SSD, 250GB SK Hynix SL301 SATA SSD, 2TB Seagate Barracuda | 24x Lite-On DVD-RW, 16x HP Blu-ray | Xonar DX 7.1 | EVGA Supernova G2 1000w

"Correct a wise man and he shall be grateful for the knowledge, correct a fool and he shall hate you."
"If you are presented with an opportunity to do some good, you should. Not to do so is irresponsible."

reply

#38 | RE: [Guide] How Do I? : Modify a Polaris (Radeon RX Series) GPU. datum

Thu May 21, 2020 3:37 pm (Last edited: Fri May 22, 2020 3:28 pm)

Ok. I did all the homework (up to the intermediate tuning) and managed fairly decent results. The "new" Hynix, although rated at lower frequency do go well with some OC (and do not suffer from the cr*p upper memory strap the "old" do). 2150 MHz for the vram seems stable (keep in mind the starting point is 1750, not 2000).
Unfortunately you *have* to select the Hynix timings (Memory timing level2) in wattman, if you leave it in Automatic it selects the cr*ppy Elpida timings although GPU-Z recognise the chips as Hynix.
standard frequency Hynix timings:

with some OC:

now it's time to work a bit on the timings, methinks....

what is really important is to unleash some current (power limit +30%) as 112A for TDC is a problem, even at stock settings (I use Superposition as testing benchmark: without the extra current, GPU frequency is not consistent through the test).
On the other hand it is possible to perform some undervolting (up to 50 mV reduction).
I do not understand the reason behind it, but if I lower ALL the values in wattman by 50mV I get different power results compared to using Afterburner with -50mV (about 160W with Wattman, 135W with Afterburner) while retaining the same OC performance at 1.43GHz.
Fan profile obviously needs some tweaking to keep tempeatures at bay.
@ket:
I edited all the straps from 900 upwards (I didn't like to have more relaxed timings at lower frequencies), using your strap and the existing lower straps as guides.
the 2k (last) one turned out like this:
7770000000000000228E9D0073EE8D53B06914153ECF560C004E26017E0514206A8900A0020031201C143F48C5324C1A
opinions?
It is a tiny bit more relaxed than yours but I wanted it to blend in with the existing ones. In case things turn pear shaped, I will take the safer 9-9-9-9 route

reply

#39 | RE: [Guide] How Do I? : Modify a Polaris (Radeon RX Series) GPU. datum

Fri May 22, 2020 7:54 pm

for anyone looking to up their VDDCI voltage there are 2 ways that work on RX560

first one sets the static voltage value that is varied only by LLC/Trim offset settings

the value defining VDDCI is in ASIC_Init table 02 05 02 04 00 6B 03

second way is more convenient as it doesn't even require BIOS mod since it can be applied to registry.

it involves modifying platform capabilities field, contained within powerplay table, defined in pptable_v1_0.h as ulPlatformCaps
setting bit 15 enables dynamic VDDCI voltage and the VDDCI values from memory table are then used for each memory state respectively

reply

#40 | RE: [Guide] How Do I? : Modify a Polaris (Radeon RX Series) GPU. datum

Sat May 23, 2020 4:51 am

Good info there, you might want to run some tests with that registry method though as its possible to make the driver BSOD when the card comes under load if the expected VDDCI isn't returned true. RTG tried REALLY hard to stop people from modding Polaris cards.. god knows why its us modders that have done the jobs RTG couldn't be arsed with doing properly.

"Ryzen Dawn"

AMD "Zen" 3700X | X570 Tomahawk | 2x16GB Kevv BoltX 3600MHz @ 18-20-20-18-35 2T 1.35v | Powercolor Red Devil 6800XT | 500GB Asgard M.2 NVMe SSD, 250GB Asgard M.2 NVMe SSD, 250GB SK Hynix SL301 SATA SSD, 2TB Seagate Barracuda | 24x Lite-On DVD-RW, 16x HP Blu-ray | Xonar DX 7.1 | EVGA Supernova G2 1000w

"Correct a wise man and he shall be grateful for the knowledge, correct a fool and he shall hate you."
"If you are presented with an opportunity to do some good, you should. Not to do so is irresponsible."

reply

#41 | RE: [Guide] How Do I? : Modify a Polaris (Radeon RX Series) GPU. datum

Sat May 23, 2020 5:16 am

Zitat von elisw im Beitrag #38
Ok. I did all the homework (up to the intermediate tuning) and managed fairly decent results. The "new" Hynix, although rated at lower frequency do go well with some OC (and do not suffer from the cr*p upper memory strap the "old" do). 2150 MHz for the vram seems stable (keep in mind the starting point is 1750, not 2000).
Unfortunately you *have* to select the Hynix timings (Memory timing level2) in wattman, if you leave it in Automatic it selects the cr*ppy Elpida timings although GPU-Z recognise the chips as Hynix.
standard frequency Hynix timings:

with some OC:

now it's time to work a bit on the timings, methinks....

what is really important is to unleash some current (power limit +30%) as 112A for TDC is a problem, even at stock settings (I use Superposition as testing benchmark: without the extra current, GPU frequency is not consistent through the test).
On the other hand it is possible to perform some undervolting (up to 50 mV reduction).
I do not understand the reason behind it, but if I lower ALL the values in wattman by 50mV I get different power results compared to using Afterburner with -50mV (about 160W with Wattman, 135W with Afterburner) while retaining the same OC performance at 1.43GHz.
Fan profile obviously needs some tweaking to keep tempeatures at bay.
@ket:
I edited all the straps from 900 upwards (I didn't like to have more relaxed timings at lower frequencies), using your strap and the existing lower straps as guides.
the 2k (last) one turned out like this:
7770000000000000228E9D0073EE8D53B06914153ECF560C004E26017E0514206A8900A0020031201C143F48C5324C1A
opinions?
It is a tiny bit more relaxed than yours but I wanted it to blend in with the existing ones. In case things turn pear shaped, I will take the safer 9-9-9-9 route

@elisw memory is detected at boot when the card poweres on with the rest of the system you shouldn't be needing to touch anything to do with the timings in wattman, wattman is also a buggy POS I'd basically ignore anything it tells you, use it to set your power limit and disable zero RPM, then never bother with it. Sometimes the driver nerfs and confuses itself when you apply a lot of BIOS level changes and/or try too many different memory timing straps so a clean uninstall from safe mode using Display Driver Uninstaller might be in order. To reach 2150MHz the card you have might well be fitted with 8gbps ICs as thats extremely high for 7gbps rated modules. As for your timings, they are ok but probably quite a lot of wiggle room for improvement, all of the sequential ras timings are rather loose, TR2W is a little loose too, TRP_RDA and ACTRD are on the loose side as well, you're on the right track though.

Side note: The XFX BIOS on your card might be a limiting factor historically something has always been fubar with XFX BIOSes from my experience, I had 4830s I had to cross reference and flash with an Asus BIOS because the XFX one made the system BSOD when crossfire was enabled, and I had a 290X that XFX threw so much voltage at the card might as well have been a literal open fire touch that sucker even for a second you would get a nasty burn. All that voltage didn't even help the card OC better, unsurprising considering the inferno it was with XFXs "optimised" settings

"Ryzen Dawn"

AMD "Zen" 3700X | X570 Tomahawk | 2x16GB Kevv BoltX 3600MHz @ 18-20-20-18-35 2T 1.35v | Powercolor Red Devil 6800XT | 500GB Asgard M.2 NVMe SSD, 250GB Asgard M.2 NVMe SSD, 250GB SK Hynix SL301 SATA SSD, 2TB Seagate Barracuda | 24x Lite-On DVD-RW, 16x HP Blu-ray | Xonar DX 7.1 | EVGA Supernova G2 1000w

"Correct a wise man and he shall be grateful for the knowledge, correct a fool and he shall hate you."
"If you are presented with an opportunity to do some good, you should. Not to do so is irresponsible."

reply

#42 | RE: [Guide] How Do I? : Modify a Polaris (Radeon RX Series) GPU. datum

Sat May 23, 2020 4:33 pm (Last edited: Sun May 24, 2020 10:55 am)

bad news... it seems like there is something going wrong.
the flashed BIOS is not seen as fully working, AMD software doesn't see it and GPU-Z shows something broken.
below the std bios (left) and the modded (right) with all the data missing.

I tried all options to no avail (reinstalled drivers, DDU and all that).
It seems even if I change one single parameter in PBE it breaks it. Even changing TDC from 112 to 115 is enough to break it. *any* value edited is a failure.
Only thing on PBE that doesn't break it is the checksum correction after editing the file with HxD (BTW, the bios already has POLARIS20 instead of ELLESMERE, so the only change to be done is from 0F to 07)

Edit:
there is a patch program that needs to be run. I didn't know about it, once I found out, it works

reply

#43 | RE: [Guide] How Do I? : Modify a Polaris (Radeon RX Series) GPU. datum

Sun May 24, 2020 2:57 pm

Zitat von ket im Beitrag #40
Good info there, you might want to run some tests with that registry method though as its possible to make the driver BSOD when the card comes under load if the expected VDDCI isn't returned true. RTG tried REALLY hard to stop people from modding Polaris cards.. god knows why its us modders that have done the jobs RTG couldn't be arsed with doing properly.

no BSODs noticed during the valley/furmark tests, or playing UT4 for several hours.
do you know if the system BIOS I2C settings are related to video BIOS I2C configuration? i have I2C 0 - I2C 3 in "SB I2C Configuration" under chipset/southbridge, with only I2C 0 enabled by default

reply

#44 | RE: [Guide] How Do I? : Modify a Polaris (Radeon RX Series) GPU. datum

Mon May 25, 2020 12:18 am

From my experience I2C is flaky, trying to read the information leads to the driver doing all sorts of weird things until you reboot so I've not really bothered with it much. Just can't be arsed with dealing with the dodgyness of AMDs drivers.

"Ryzen Dawn"

AMD "Zen" 3700X | X570 Tomahawk | 2x16GB Kevv BoltX 3600MHz @ 18-20-20-18-35 2T 1.35v | Powercolor Red Devil 6800XT | 500GB Asgard M.2 NVMe SSD, 250GB Asgard M.2 NVMe SSD, 250GB SK Hynix SL301 SATA SSD, 2TB Seagate Barracuda | 24x Lite-On DVD-RW, 16x HP Blu-ray | Xonar DX 7.1 | EVGA Supernova G2 1000w

"Correct a wise man and he shall be grateful for the knowledge, correct a fool and he shall hate you."
"If you are presented with an opportunity to do some good, you should. Not to do so is irresponsible."

reply

#45 | RE: [Guide] How Do I? : Modify a Polaris (Radeon RX Series) GPU. datum

Mon May 25, 2020 3:54 pm

how about the situation when afterburner does not detect any i2c devices? disabled by driver/bios somehow? other than that i haven't noticed anyone mention he changed switching frequency over SVI2. basically all there regulators are based on intersil technology so they might have more in common than it seems

reply

Please enter a reason for warning.