Thank you so much! I will try the update to F6a later on!

@Lost_N_BIOS - I did the update to the F6a version that you have uploaded in your last posting. The update itself was successful and I was able to start the computer normally - after going into the BIOS menu, I loaded the optimized defaults and I booted windows 10 afterwards. Windows 10 worked fine and so did the ethernet internet. However, once I shut the pc down and then tried to power it back on, the old reboot loop started...

Here's the F9 menu screenshot I took to show that it was indeed updated to F6a (it used to be F5):



I think in this case, it only worked because I waited 12h plus... can this all be due to a simple bios update failure?

What's worse is this: If I get into the 1.34 or the 1.40 version of the programmer app, it recognizes the chip but the motherboard LEDs do not light up like they used to before I did the update to F6a, and while I am able to read the chip, it somehow can't erase it. Everytime I click on erase, it's done after a second. When I click on blank, it tells me that not all values are set to 00 or FF...Maybe I have to wait 12h once again so that the motherboard lights up. Perhaps then I'll be able to erase the chip and use the initial backup bios (F3) I made prior to the first bios flash...

This motherboard was nothing but an excrutiating experience. I'll most likely declare it DOA tomorrow and ask for a substitute from the seller.

@Lumberjack - Plug the board in to a power source while using programmer, that may help. If not, use the version you used before. Onboard LEDs are really not a part of this process, if they light up or not is simply due to power delivery/lane layouts etc.
It may be normal for your board to light up, but certainly don't base "It's working" or not on that, however if you can't erase or write to chip with LEDs out, then it could be related to "it's working or not" in that case try the other version again that you had working before.

Go into windows, and run FPT and issue the following command, it should reboot automatically, but if not shut it down, remove all power from the board (disconnect power supply and remove CMOS battery), then press and hold power on button or short pins for 10-15 seconds, then short CMOS pins or press button for 10-15 seconds, then let sit for 1+ minute. Then put battery back, plug in PSU and try again, see how it acts. None of this power removal dance is required if after you issue the command below the board automatically reboots (It does same thing, only with internal command, both of these reset the ME State)

FPTw.exe -greset

BIOS update failure should not cause all this mess. Please try writing both BIOS to F6a, see if that helps too, if the above -greset does not.

@Lost_N_BIOS - So I can plug in the power cord into the PSU and turn the PSU switch on? Or do you mean to just plug in the power cord and leave the PSU switch in the off position?

Regarding the command: If Windows 10 starts properly on the affected PC and if I'm not stuck in a reboot loop, I can open the cmd.exe and execute the FPTw.exe -greset command. However, if I can't access Windows, is there any other way?

As for writing the backup bios chip, too: Thankfully, Gigabyte have soldered in the backup bios in a very crowded space (thermal conductors etc.) where I can't insert the SOIC8 clip...

Yes, but don't power on the board. It's not necessary, but you can test that if you want, see if that changes the LED effect with the software, since you seemed to think that mattered/was related to it working or not

FPT can be ran from DOS, inside the flash programming tool folder you will find DOS version.

To make backup BIOS match main, then you will need to use hotkey combo at startup (same time you normally use DEL to get into BIOS). Press Control + F10, sometimes you have to try a few times before you get it, if you see boot choice screen reboot and try again.
Best if you can use PS/2 KB, but if it doesn't have PS/2, use USB 2.0 if it has it, and never wireless. If you get the "Swap BIOS" screens, reboot and use ALT+F10 instead. ALT/CTRL + F11 and F12 also have function, but I forget which all is which on UEFI BIOS

Do the F10 and F11/ F12 keys even work?
I tried it on the Aorus Master but they don't do anything at all.
Then again, the Aorus Master has the dip switches for single/dual bios mode and primary and backup bios as current bios.

I remember on the *OLD* gigabyte P67 boards, you couldn't even do those key strokes without a PS/2 keyboard. A USB keyboard was possible but it was as hard as trying to enter windows safe mode boot menu on any current system.
At least I hope it's better.

And I wish I had found this thread much easier. I would have recommended you buying the Skypro programmer rather than the CH. The software on the Skypro is MUCH better, updated repeatedly and supports so many chips. Used it to TDP mod my MXM GTX 1070 and backup bioses.

http://www.coright.com/product/showproduct.php?lang=en&id=51

Now they have a Skypro III...oh dear...
http://www.coright.com/product/showproduct.php?lang=en&id=58

And for Gigabyte, if I recall, to stop boot loops in the past, you're supposed to flash both the main and the backup bioses to the same version.
But you can't get to the chip :(

Have you tried a Pomona 5250 clip? the teeth are narrower than many of those cheap chinese clips you see all over.
https://www.amazon.com/CPT-063-Test-Clip.../dp/B00HHH65T4/

Also the Designare is not their highest end board. It's considered to be around the level of the Ultra, but with features catering to a different audience (Ultra is catered more towards gamers). Look at the PCB of the Ultra then you'll see.
Only the Master and Xtreme have the bios jumper selection switches.

I only have a USB keyboard, so I'll probably never be able to do the ctrl + F10 trick... and no, I haven't had any success with ctrl + F10 before...

I don't know what's going on with this mobo... it's pure lunacy... now that I know that the backup bios is a liability rather than a benefit, I will have to return the mobo...

The sly folks at Gigabyte have really outdone themselves placing the backup bios directly next to a tall capacitor, just slightly beneath a heat sink...I'm not even sure if these Pomona clips would help... you can see the location of the backup bios in the image I provided in the original posting.

Zitat von Lumberjack im Beitrag #22

---

I only have a USB keyboard, so I'll probably never be able to do the ctrl + F10 trick... and no, I haven't had any success with ctrl + F10 before...

I don't know what's going on with this mobo... it's pure lunacy... now that I know that the backup bios is a liability rather than a benefit, I will have to return the mobo...

The sly folks at Gigabyte have really outdone themselves placing the backup bios directly next to a tall capacitor, just slightly beneath a heat sink...I'm not even sure if these Pomona clips would help... you can see the location of the backup bios in the image I provided in the original posting.

---

@Falkentyne - I've used on recent boards as new as Z170, it's just different now for UEFI BIOS, but it still works (F10-F12 do different things, with ALT or CTRL)
Yes, it works with USB too that's all I use now and just used this feature recently on Z170 too. USB worked way back in P67 as well, but when possible it's easier with PS/2

@Lumberjack these hotkeys will get the backup BIOS changed for you, all you have to do is get on it
But yes, I agree with Falkentyne, unsure about Pomona clip since I don't have one, but it looks to me like the cheapo clip should fit. If not, that heatsink likely has a pad on it, remove it just be careful squeezing the pins together on backside to push through, so you don't scratch PCB, unless it's screws then you're all set.
if the edge of the clip is against capacitor too much, grind/file the clip down on one side

@Lost_N_BIOS - I already tried the cheapo clip and it doesn't fit at all. The capacitor is simply way too tall.

In the meantime, I got a brand new Z390 DESIGNARE which i have successfully flashed with the newest F6a bios version. No more reboot problems, it just works as it's supposed to.

The experience with the faulty Z390 DESIGNARE has certainly left its mark on me. The flashing process today was a nerve-wrecking undertaking and I'm even scared to adjust the bios settings. What if I overdo some CPU or RAM overclocking? Will the system erase my main bios and flash it with the backup bios or will the main bios remain except that optimized default settings will kick in? Is it best to stick with the XMP profile and leave the CPU at stcok settings?

I talked to Gigabyte about the backup bios: The tech suppoorter told me that the backup bios always remains at the factory bios version (in my case F3) no matter if the main bios was flashed successfully or not. So I guess just flashing the main bios should have been sufficient. In my case, it wasn't of course. I don't know what has happened exactly but I sure now that it is all due to the corrupted bios flash - all these reboots, 12h rest - working cycles are all due to a failed bios update. I still can't believe it. Not even a proper flash with the CH341A was able to make it work it had to be a completely new board...

@Lumberjack - glad you have a good working board now! So alleviate your worries, since you are now on the latest BIOS, go ahead and reflash the backup to match the main using the hotkey combos I mentioned.
If you hit wrong one redo again using opposite command (If CTRL flashes backup to main, then use ALT instead, once you re-update the main to version you wanted)

If you mess up an overclock generally it will try a few times, then fail and let you know in the BIOS overclock failed. Sometimes when pushing certain things too hard that kind of recovery fails, and you would simply be forced to clear CMOS to get back into BIOS.
That is how boards work normally, and your new one should work like this always, not sure how you ended up at situation with the other board but I doubt you'll see that mess again.

XMP, overclock etc, that's all up to you Don't be scared of BIOS, you wont run into same issue as before!

Tech support knows nothing, except simple scripts. That statement is wrong on a few levels. Some BIOS will update the backup BIOS by itself, when Qflash version changes for example, and there is other times this may happen as well (major security updates etc).
Or you can change it yourself as mentioned, I suggest making it match current latest version once you are sure you like that BIOS.

@Lost_N_BIOS - Thank you once again for all your helpful posts! I will try the CTRL + F10 before the bios screen tomorrow so that the backup bios is updated to F6a, too. Would you recommend doing the CTRL + F10 command with optimized bios settings or should I first set the settings to my desired values, including overclocking, before I use CTRL + F10?

If I reset the CMOS - via the CMOS jumper or the CMOS battery removal - after an inappropriate overclock or detrimental setting, will the PC automatically start with the backup bios or will the main bios be used?

I'll definitely report back tomorrow.

You're welcome @Lumberjack - Settings used don't matter, it's always a base copy, wont carry over any overclock or saved profiles etc

Resetting CMOS it will boot with normal BIOS at fail safe defaults, until you again apply optimal defaults.

Zitat von Lumberjack im Beitrag #27

---

@Lost_N_BIOS - Thank you once again for all your helpful posts! I will try the CTRL + F10 before the bios screen tomorrow so that the backup bios is updated to F6a, too. Would you recommend doing the CTRL + F10 command with optimized bios settings or should I first set the settings to my desired values, including overclocking, before I use CTRL + F10?

If I reset the CMOS - via the CMOS jumper or the CMOS battery removal - after an inappropriate overclock or detrimental setting, will the PC automatically start with the backup bios or will the main bios be used?

I'll definitely report back tomorrow.

---

@Lost_N_BIOS & @Falkentyne - I tried the hotkey trick several times before the bios screen (CTRL + F10) to no avail. I contacted Gigabyte once again and they have informed me that they have officially removed these bios flash hotkey commands after their Z170 motherboard line.

He also told me that if the board doesn't have a physical bios switch, there is no way to induce a backup bios flash. Some dualbios boards without a bios switch do feature an automatic backup bios update, however, it depends on whether or not the developers deem it necessary for a particular board to update the backup bios every time the main bios is successfully updated. And I agree: It's a damn shame that a board in this price league - it's definitely among the more expensive Z390 boards - doesn't at least have a bios switch or socketed insertions.

Is there any other way left, besides the programmer, to update the backup bios to the main bios version? Now that I know that the main bios is working correctly and I won't play around with the bios settings, will there even be a need for a backup bios? Is it possible that the main bios corrupts out of the blue?