Forum - RE: [HOT] Win10 Update makes nForce RAID arrays unaccessable

#211 | RE: [HOT] Win10 Update makes nForce RAID arrays unaccessable datum

Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:37 am (Last edited: Fri Sep 16, 2016 1:22 am)

Does anyone have already tried the new cumulative update from 13th of september yet? https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3185614

I blocked the previous cuumulative update from 9th of august (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3185614) as I wrote in #66 and the RAID is still working with default windows-drivers.

EDIT: Just tried the cumulative update from 13th of september KB3185614. The RAID disappears, so this update must be blocked too.

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#212 | RE: [HOT] Win10 Update makes nForce RAID arrays unaccessable datum

Fri Sep 16, 2016 1:02 am

@jwhickman:
It is true, that Microsoft's Operating Systems prefer drivers with a higher version number and a newer date, but in this case I do not see any danger for nForce RAID users, that Microsoft will automaticly install a newer nForce RAID driver.
Simple reason: Microsoft does not develop and deliver NVIDIA nForce RAID dtivers and NVIDIA has stopped the development of the nForce chipset drivers already in 2009/2010.
Consequence: A manipulation of the driver version or date is possible by modifying the INF file, but doesn't make sense.
Furthermore any manipulation of the driver's version number or date would be absolutely misleading for the users.
By the way: If a user has installed an older driver or a driver with a lower version number than the in-box one, he may have to force the installation by using the "Have Disk" option, but the OS will never change the in-use driver.

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#213 | RE: [HOT] Win10 Update makes nForce RAID arrays unaccessable datum

Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:05 pm

@edv.kleini:
You got the link via PM.

Good luck!

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#214 | RE: [HOT] Win10 Update makes nForce RAID arrays unaccessable datum

Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:19 pm (Last edited: Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:45 am)

Hi All,

I can confirm that the latest customized Win10 x64 v1607 ISO from @Fernando allow the install of Windows 10 Pro to progress past the drive selection screen. My Raid Array (Raid 0) on my Nforce 650 Sli can be seen and the install completes successfully.
However, after the first boot i get the message "Boot Device Inaccessible" message. So I completed the following step 4 as per aokake's guide -

Zitat von aokake im Beitrag #211
4. Before PC boot up I change boot order to boot from Windows USB boot disk first for modify driver on RAID Arrays disk to use modified sataraid driver v.11.1.0.43 by compare keys and values from two systems registry.
System 1 HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Enum\SCSI\Array&Ven_NVIDIA&Prod_Raid_Disk\xxxxxxxxxx (this registry on Windows Setup RAM disk from USB boot disk).
System 2 (load hive from ?:/Windows/System32/config/SYSTEM by set TEMP key name) HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\TEMP\ControlSet001\Enum\SCSI\Array&Ven_NVIDIA&Prod_Raid_Disk\xxxxxxxxxx (this registry on RAID Arrays disk).
After modified System 2 registry and unload hive, I can reboot PC to boot Windows on RAID Arrays disk.

Once this is done I can load windows 10 successfully.
What I noticed on First boot was that the system had defaulted back to the generic scsi.inf file and associated drivers.

Thanks to Fernando for you good work and to others that have also contributed to getting this far.

Thanks,
Steve.

EDIT by Fernando: Quoted text and its list code optimized (for better readability)

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#215 | RE: [HOT] Win10 Update makes nForce RAID arrays unaccessable datum

Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:11 am (Last edited: Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:25 am)

Hi, @edv.kleini
Have you tried this?

Zitat von aokake im Beitrag #202

After reboot, recheck driver under "Storage controllers" should have "NVIDIA nForce RAID Device" no "Generic SCSI Array Device" if not, manual update driver to nforce modified 11.1.0.43 (Choose Browse on my computer => Let me pick from a list... because it's not digitally signed).

My PC work perfectly, no problem after reboot or updated.

Regards,
AokAke

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#216 | RE: [HOT] Win10 Update makes nForce RAID arrays unaccessable datum

Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:24 pm

@ENAJonas:
@aokake:
@SteveyB:
@edv.kleini:
On behalf of all nForce RAID users I want to thank you for your great efforts spending a lot of hours to test, whether and how it is possible to get Win10 v1607 clean installed onto your bootable nForce RAID array, and to report about how you did it.
The fact, that you succeeded at least, verifies, that it is possible to solve the problem even for nForce users, whose system drive is inside the RAID array.

@all nForce RAID users:
Thanks to the tests done by the above mentioned Forum members we now know, that
a) the problem regarding the topic of this thread is solvable,
b) the Win10 v1607 in-box nForce RAID driver v10.6.0.23 is unusable and
c) the Win10 v1607 Setup will accept and use nForce RAID drivers, whose INF file has been correctly customized and digitally signed
(pre-condition: the in-box Force RAID driver had been removed from the OS image).

Despite the now available success reports and the related guides about how to do it, we are obviously not at the end of the rooad:
There must be a way to get Win10 v1607 clean installed onto an nForce RAID array without getting the "UNACCASSIBLE BOOT DEVICE" message while rebooting and the need to repair the registry during the OS installation.

The most interesting questions for me are the following:

Which Win10 v1607 in-box "driver" resp. INF file is responsable for the trouble, which requires the reparation of the registry at the end of the OS installation?
Note: According to my knowledge it cannot be the file named "SCSIDEV.INF" v10.14393.0, because it doesn't support anymore the "Generic SCSI Array Device" (as you can see >here<).
What happens, if the initiator of the "UNACCESSABLE BOOT DEVICE" bug will be removed from the Win10 image as well (no matter whether it is an INF file or a real driver)?

Please let us know, if you know the answers.

Some remarks about the tool NTLite:

The removal and insertion of specific drivers from/to the Win10 v1607 image by using the tool NTLite can be done according >this< guide.
Since the officially released free version of NTLite doesn't offer all required options regarding the removal of certain Win10 in-box storage drivers, you may need a special NTLite version, where these options are enabled.
Our Forum member nuhi, who is the author of the NTLite tool, has already created such special NTLite version with advanced options for Forum members, who are willing to do some tests regarding the topic of this thread.
Big thanks to nuhi for having done that!
Interested testers may send me a PM and I will give them the link to that special NTLite version.

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MB: ASRock X570 Pro4, CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600, System Drive: 500 GB Samsung 980 Pro, Graphics: Sapphire Radeon RX570, OS: Win10 x64 Pro
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#217 | RE: [HOT] Win10 Update makes nForce RAID arrays unaccessable datum

Sun Sep 18, 2016 2:39 pm

Hi Edv,

Are you loading the SYSTEM hive after you boot from USB (as TEMP) copying all the relevant values from USB boot registry and then unmount the SYSTEM (TEMP) hive?

This is what I did and the settings remain every time I Boot from RAID disks.

Steve.

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#218 | RE: [HOT] Win10 Update makes nForce RAID arrays unaccessable datum

Sun Sep 18, 2016 3:09 pm (Last edited: Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:05 pm)

Zitat von edv.kleini im Beitrag #222
My question is now: Have you installed your nforce driver in the Install.wim as well with the ntlite tool?

For sure I did that, but only regarding the WIN.INSTALL index of the Win10 Professional.

If you want to integrate any storage driver into any Win7/8/10 Image, you have to do the same procedure with the BOOT.WIM and the INSTALL.WIM. Otherwise the inserted driver will be not available during the second part of the OS installation, when it comes to the detailed Hardware Detection and the final storage and PnP driver installation.

My current System:
MB: ASRock X570 Pro4, CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600, System Drive: 500 GB Samsung 980 Pro, Graphics: Sapphire Radeon RX570, OS: Win10 x64 Pro
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#219 | Unable to Update ATA and RAID Controller driver datum

Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:26 pm

Hello,

I have an Nvidia Nforce G8300 Chip on an Asus M4N78 Pro mainboard and my System Disk is NOT on the Disk RAID. I encountered the RAID Problem with Nvidia driver version 10.6.0.23 for my data disk after installing KB3176493. First I deactivated this patch, but after applying the new Update KB3185614 the problem reappeared (see #213). So I tried to follow the suggestions of #146 to get a permanent solution with the following result:

- Importing Certificate OK
- Updating Drivers for Generic SCSI Array Device OK
After Update and Reboot two Nvidia RAID Devices are shown with correct driver version 11.1.0.43
- Updating ATA Controller and RAID Controller claims, that the driver is allready the most recent version
But this is an ERROR, the Driver version remains 10.6.0.23.

I even deinstalled the RAID Controller, but after updating the HW, again the old driver version 10.6.0.23 appeared. The RAID Disks are not visible and I guess that somehow the two active different driver versions are not copmpatible. My system still uses the old drivers for ATA and RAID Controller and does not allow an update.

Any suggestions?

Regards, Rainer

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#220 | RE: Unable to Update ATA and RAID Controller driver datum

Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:51 pm (Last edited: Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:52 pm)

@NetAktiv:
Hello Rainer,
welcome at Win-RAID Forum!

Zitat von NetAktiv im Beitrag #225
- Updating ATA Controller and RAID Controller claims, that the driver is allready the most recent version
But this is an ERROR, the Driver version remains 10.6.0.23. , the Driver version remains 10.6.0.23.

You should not believe such messages given by the OS Device Management.
Note:
If you want to replace a WHQL certified or OS in-box driver by any other not WHQL certified driver (no matter which version or date it has), you have to force the installation by using the "Let me pick..." > "Have Disk" option.
The option "Browse for drivers on your Computer" is only usable, if you are going to install a WHQL certified driver, which is newer than the currently running driver.

Regards
Dieter (alias Fernando)

My current System:
MB: ASRock X570 Pro4, CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600, System Drive: 500 GB Samsung 980 Pro, Graphics: Sapphire Radeon RX570, OS: Win10 x64 Pro
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#221 | RE: Unable to Update ATA and RAID Controller driver datum

Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:13 pm

Hello Fernando,

Zitat von Fernando im Beitrag #226

If you want to replace a WHQL certified or OS in-box driver by any other not WHQL certified driver (no matter which version or date it has), you have to force the installation by using the "Let me pick..." > "Have Disk" option.
The option "Browse for drivers on your Computer" is only usable, if you are going to install a WHQL certified driver, which is newer than the currently running driver.

For me pick and browse seems to be tiny difference with huge impact

. Thanks for your speedy reply, after picking the driver, forcing the update and rebooting, my RAID disks where accessible. You made me happy

.

Thanks and regards, Rainer

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#222 | RE: Unable to Update ATA and RAID Controller driver datum

Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:45 pm

Hey all!

Glad to hear things are pretty close to getting totally solved; this thread is probably the <only> place right now that has such good resources on this issue!

I've been away on business but next weekend I'll be back. My plan is to finally find out <exactly> what the update changes and how it causes this issue. I will take snapshots of the all the relevant INFs and registry settings now; install the next cum. 9/13 update, and on the first reboot which we know still works; take the same snapshots. And then of course fix it again :)

I should have something for this group then - unless it's completely solved beforehand :)

Justin

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#223 | RE: [HOT] Win10 Update makes nForce RAID arrays unaccessable datum

Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:44 pm (Last edited: Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:26 pm)

Zitat von edv.kleini im Beitrag #229
if only MS and NVidia would cooperate a little closer together. From my point of view it is a "Klacks" (what we say in German) for MS to invoke Nforce RAID into their actual Windows 10 version again.

Hello Kleini,
I'm not sure wheather it has been mentioned or discussed here, but in an other forum I read that Nvidia stopped selling (and this also means earning money with) device driver hardware many years ago. So it's more or less logical, that support for old hardware will not last forever. On the other hand for me it's unclear, why MS changed somehow the interface, maybe there would have been an upwards compatible solution, too. My PC now ist at least 8 years old and so I can be happy that even Windows 10 is running. But I would not have upgraded from Windows 7, if these changes had been known in advance and reported as warning by the upgrade monitor.
Regards, Rainer

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#224 | RE: [HOT] Win10 Update makes nForce RAID arrays unaccessable datum

Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:36 pm (Last edited: Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:37 pm)

Zitat von NetAktiv im Beitrag #231
in an other forum I read that Nvidia stopped selling (and this also means earning money with) device driver hardware many years ago. So it's more or less logical, that support for old hardware will not last forever.

I agree with you, that the owner of old hardware cannot expect, that Microsoft takes care about them, when they develop a new Operating System, but Win10 v1607 is just an Update of Win10 and no new Operating System. For me it is unacceptable, that Microsoft forces the installation of an Update, which automaticly kills the usage of a system, which worked fine until the update and doesn't care about the affected users.

My current System:
MB: ASRock X570 Pro4, CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600, System Drive: 500 GB Samsung 980 Pro, Graphics: Sapphire Radeon RX570, OS: Win10 x64 Pro
Donation Link:
If you are satisfied with my Forum activities, you can send a donation to my personal PayPal account by clicking onto >this< link.

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#225 | RE: [HOT] Win10 Update makes nForce RAID arrays unaccessable datum

Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:28 pm

Hello Fernando,

Zitat von Fernando im Beitrag #232
For me it is unacceptable, that Microsoft forces the installation of an Update, which automaticly kills the usage of a system, which worked fine until the update and doesn't care about the affected users.

That's more or less the same i wrote a couple of weeks ago in the German forum about this topic (there I got the link to this forum).
http://answers.microsoft.com/de-de/windo...f4-8d870f772305
I wrote something like today they destroy RAID, tomorrow Sound and the day after tomorrow Graphic.

On the other hand I mean to remember that MS has plans to stay with Windows 10 as a kind of evolutionary OS. But if you live for a very long time then you cannot be always upwards compatible, sometimes you must make a cut to get rid of seldom used code to keep the rest stable and maintainable. I was happy with Windows 7, but a little daemon inside me told me, that I must migrate to the modern Windows 10. In this case I'm happy that you provided a workaround, but it did cost me at least one day, until I found the reason and got the workaround running. This definitely was a absolutely unnecessary waste of time.

Regards, Rainer

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