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SkOrPn
Posts: 80 | Last online: 01.06.2017
Name
Rod
Date of birth
28. May 1966
Occupation
Computer Tech
Hobbies
Hiking, Camping, Solar, Computers, Economics, Government
Location
New Mexico, USA
Date registered
10.15.2013
Sex
male
    • SkOrPn has written a new post "X58 Chipset with problems to boot off a PCIe connected SSD" 01.06.2017

      Zitat von mireque im Beitrag #72
      I've got some good news to share - I've finally managed to compile the latest stable TianoCore EDK2 sources (the UDK2015 release, UEFI v2.5) with UEFI drivers (NVMe + XHCI) compiled directly into DUET (no need to load drivers now). If this proves stable over time (I'm currently running / testing it now), I'll most probably release it - then the whole tutorial / process will be much easier to do. Will let you know for sure.



      Yeah wow that is very good news. Congrats on your success. I can't wait to try this... Wish I could afford the SSD today, but I can't yet.

    • SkOrPn has written a new post "X58 Chipset with problems to boot off a PCIe connected SSD" 01.05.2017

      @mireque

      Do you happen to know if DUET can see other USB chips on the PCIe bus, such as my Gigabyte GC-USB3.1 x4 card? I am wondering if I can build the DUET device on a USB 2.0 flash drive, insert that flash drive into a USB 2.0 port (so the BIOS see's it), boot to the DUET but then have the "startup.nsh" point to the Windows 10 setup files on my SanDisk Extreme connected to that super fast USB 3.1 card? Like I said, I will have to play around for sure, lol.

      I assume I would have to somehow find a command to ask DUET if it see's the SanDisk flash drive on the USB 3.1 card, and if it does figure out what drive number assignment it has been given so I can use that information in the automated "startup.nsh".

    • SkOrPn has written a new post "X58 Chipset with problems to boot off a PCIe connected SSD" 01.04.2017

      I think I will give this duet a try just to see how it works and possibly make some adjustments for my particular system. Maybe I can use duet to load xhci drivers, and just maybe have it point to my usb 3.1 add-in card. With any luck maybe I can also install Windows from a USB 3.0 device.

      Thanks again for your time and effort getting something working for people who want to use nvme on older systems.

    • SkOrPn has written a new post "X58 Chipset with problems to boot off a PCIe connected SSD" 01.04.2017

      @mireque

      Utterly brilliant to say the least. The only thing that could possibly beat this is actual BIOS modifications. But I have no problem at all with an implementation such as this.

      One last question, is the XHCI drivers for accessing your USB 3.0 drive? My Rampage III Extreme does not boot USB 3.0 devices (unless I use the USB 2.0 port of course), so I would be forced to use USB 2.0. I have some old but very fast HyperX and OCZ USB 2.0 drives I retired years ago. These are top of the line USB 2.0 flash drives and just as fast as any USB 3.0 drive on a USB 2.0 port. Again, I do not have any working USB 3.0 ports on my board that are seen in my BIOS, so I wouldn't be able to use DUET on a USB 3.0 port. I tried to solve this problem for the past few years but it seems Asus did NOT make my USB 3.0 ports bootable, for some very odd reason.

      So I have to use USB 2.0 ports to boot DUET from. I naturally assume this is perfectly OK? And the reason why I ask is because I thought XHCI was a USB 3.0 driver? If that's the case, would I even need that driver since my BIOS can't see those ports anyway??

    • SkOrPn has written a new post "X58 Chipset with problems to boot off a PCIe connected SSD" 01.03.2017

      @mireque

      I wasn't confused, I already read everything and it is all VERY clear to me, so thank you for that. My questions were outside of what you covered in your guide. Is the USB DUET device visible from Windows after windows has already loaded? I mean can you see it with your eyes in your file manager and thus possibly manipulate or accidentally destroy your DUET? This was not answered in your guide as far as I can tell.

      Also, you answered my other question about using Samsung drivers for the full effect of the SSD performance, so thank you for that. That also wasn't in your guide because its just not necessary information and I understand that. Your guide is perfect as it is, thank you.

      One more question though, are these files for download in your guide publicly available and kept up to date at all times? Or should we make backups of them at cloud storage places like MEGA or Dropbox? I guess I am asking if the links/files are safe and will always be available? Is DUET an ongoing open project (I haven't done any searches for it yet)? And did DUET create this method to boot NVMe SSD's, or did you put it together yourself? The reason I ask these questions is because I am the maintainer of the Samsung 960 thread at Overclock.net and I need important information so I don't accidentally tell lies to the public, haha. Hope that makes the reason for all these questions more clear and understandable. Thank you very much mireque.

    • SkOrPn has written a new post "X58 Chipset with problems to boot off a PCIe connected SSD" 01.02.2017

      Zitat von Falco75 im Beitrag #61
      Yes,

      that limitation cannot be avoided.

      Another (functional) boot device is always needed (hard disk or usb device), using a standalone NVMe or PCIe SSD with no other disks will not be possible.


      I can't imagine who would care about the extra layer. BIOS's routinely add layers upon layers before it actually boots a device anyway. If the extra layer bothers anyone all they have to do is disable a few of them within their BIOS. I plan on getting TWO M.2 SSDs and completely turning off my SATA ports and USB 3.0 ports entirely. I now use a USB 3.1 card, for USB 3.0 devices anyway and a VERY nice USB 3.0 hub. So the back ports are useless to me. That's one layer now gone that frees up PCIe lanes. SATA ports will also be disabled to free up resources and time within the BIOS. I have 5 PCIe ports that all comply with at least the x4 requirement of M.2 SSD's that I can use, one for the GPU, one for the USB 3.1 card and TWO for the SSD's. Having a dedicated USB 2.0 device (I have the perfect super fast USB 2.0 drive already present for this type of thing) for this procedure is perfectly OK with me if it allows me to take advantage of my PCIe's underlying speeds over the SATA bottleneck.

      My only thought is if its possible to use this DUET dual booting method using a MBR partition format it using EXT4 instead, or something Windows 10 can not see? Or is that already the case with the DUET partition, is it a hidden partition? Once Windows boots it would be really nice if the device that is loading Windows isn't visible to the Windows system, except for maybe inside the Disk Manager of course.

      Another thought I have is, does this method allow Windows to load and use the Samsung drivers for the SSD?

    • SkOrPn has written a new post "X58 Chipset with problems to boot off a PCIe connected SSD" 01.02.2017

      Zitat von mireque im Beitrag #54
      Anybody running X58 may want to try what I did to make SM961 boot on X58 (ASUS P6T SE) - see my blog post here https://audiocricket.com/2016/12/31/boot...t-se-mainboard/
      Please let us know if it worked for you, so Fernando can then officially create a thread on Win-Raid Forum that running bootable NVMe SSDs on X58 chipset is definitely possible, thanks! :)
      Yeah VERY nice find. Hoping I can give this a try with a 960 and my Rampage III Extreme x58 motherboard.

    • SkOrPn has written a new post "Is this Possible? USB 3.0 booting on AMI BIOS?" 09.04.2016

      I know of other boards built in the exact same year with the exact same usb chipset and it will boot ANY usb 3.0 bootable device that I attach to it. So its not the Intel chipset as both run the exact same X58 chipset, and its not the usb controller as both run the exact same usb controller (720200). It has to be something within the BIOS itself. I can put the exact same USB 3.0 flash drive with bootable media on it, and put it in this R3E USB 3.0 port and it doesn't see the drive in the BIOS during boot (F8), but the exact same flash drive on the Gigabyte system boots it perfectly. Same CPU, same memory, same Intel chipset, the only difference I see is the brand of computer and of course the BIOS written for it.

      So it is probably code in the Asus bios that is missing for this USB 3.0 chipset, but present in the Gigabyte boards bios. How do I yank that working code from the Gigabyte bios and install it into the Asus bios? Or is that not possible since Asus uses AMI and Gigabyte uses Award? Both boards have the uPD720200, and both have the same exact firmware already. Very confusing to me why one boots on the usb 3.0 and the other doesn't.

    • SkOrPn has written a new post "Is this Possible? USB 3.0 booting on AMI BIOS?" 07.29.2016

      Well today I installed the ASMedia ASM1142 into the system. Sure enough the BIOS does NOT see any devices attached to it. This now makes 4 different chipsets, the on board Renesas (720200), an aftermarket newer Renesas (720201), a Via based chipset and now a ASMedia 3.1 chipset. My BIOS only see's devices that are in native USB 2.0 mode.

      Surely there must be a module I could install into the bios so it can see and use USB 3.0 and 3.1, right?

    • SkOrPn has written a new post "Is this Possible? USB 3.0 booting on AMI BIOS?" 07.25.2016

      Zitat von Fernando im Beitrag #2
      @SkOrPn:
      Since I am not an expert at all regarding your problem, I hope, that anyone among our BIOS Gurus is able and willing to help you.
      Good luck!


      Yeah I think my board was not given the ability to use the USB 3.0 ports for booting because it was the first Motherboard with USB 3.0 and ASUS had no idea how at the time to enable this feature. Shortly afterwards, I think others figured it out and enabled within their bios's. I am probably wrong, but after many years of testing I have come to the conclusion that my BIOS is missing necessary code to boot USB 3.0 devices from a USB 3.0 port.

      This next week I should have a ASMedia USB 3.1 PCIe card in my hands and will again check to see if I can boot from it, which I am doubting already. I have tried many different format types, partition types and alignments but my USB 3.0 ports will NOT see USB 3.0 devices within the BIOS itself. After it boots to Windows or Linux I can then get great transfer rates of 255 MB/s reads and 130 MB/s writes, so I know the 3.0 ports work fantastic. In the BIOS they appear to be nothing more than 2.0 ports though. Really really really annoying me now. LOL

      Please help if you can, anyone. Thank you

    • SkOrPn has written a new post "X58 Chipset with problems to boot off a PCIe connected SSD" 04.19.2016

      Ah yes that makes sense. It is early in the NVMe technology so probably RAID is not yet developed for consumers. And when it does become available it will probably only be for UEFI systems anyway.

      I been looking at these PCIe SSD's just how I look at any PCIe SSD controller card. But with a single SSD already built in. What I need to do is start looking at them as single stand alone SSD's that instead use the PCIe bus rather than SATA or SAS. Using such a universal bus as the PCIe is, makes me think more accessible features are possible directly from the SSD's firmware controller. Even a simple "Powered by Samsung 950 Pro" splash screen would be cool to see. Lol

    • SkOrPn has written a new post "X58 Chipset with problems to boot off a PCIe connected SSD" 04.19.2016

      Zitat von Fernando im Beitrag #39
      No, there is no NVMe menu, which splashes up while booting. Why should it?

      Um obviously just in case you purchase more than one, like I can do with SATA SSD's. So are you saying raid is being abandoned on legacy bios, but not abandoned on UEFI systems?

      Samsung could have built in a accessible raid menu within its firmware controller that launches on the first 950 pro the bios initializes. It would have been a waste of resources IMO considering the legacy bios is slowly dying out, but still perfectly within engineering capabilities, especially for Samsung. So, Samsung will let me boot on a 950 pro but they won't let me buy two or three of them for Bootable raid unless I use a UEFI based system?

      I have two unused PCIe x16 slots ready for some love. Lol

    • SkOrPn has written a new post "X58 Chipset with problems to boot off a PCIe connected SSD" 04.19.2016

      What I meant was, the controllers usually have a menu such as intels which you access via cntrl-I, and the marvel option ROM
      Also can be accessed via cntrl-M and it also has a raid menu that can be setup for raid functions. So I wonder if the 950 pro also has something similar in its option ROM, maybe cntrl-S to access the features of its controller, such as legacy raid. Or is it just a dumbed down option ROM you cannot access within the storage controller?

      My thoughts are, that Bootable raid is not possible and the only PCIe raid possible on legacy systems would therefor be windows raid. But I'm still wondering how nick29's 950 pro option ROM works on his legacy bios.

    • SkOrPn has written a new post "X58 Chipset with problems to boot off a PCIe connected SSD" 04.19.2016

      Considering this is a x58 thread I am wondering if we with legacy bios would get the same results? In fact, if it's true that 950 pro has a built-in legacy option ROM how does two of them in the same system even work? And would that option ROM even have a raid menu? Lol

      After 20 years of raiding drives I admit I am starting to finally lose my interest in doing so. These new SSD's are just satisfying my need for speed as they are. I wish I had one 950 pro 512gb for the OS and one Intel 750 for the local storage. That would be fun to test.

    • SkOrPn has written a new post "X58 Chipset with problems to boot off a PCIe connected SSD" 04.18.2016

      A few years back I seen someone with a Rampage III Extreme and a OCZ Revo PCIe SSD discovering that if he had no other bootsectors, or attached SATA drives, that his Revo would show up in his BIOS boot menu as a AHCI drive and he could boot to it with no trouble at all. However, as soon as he installed another SATA drive it would disappear from the BIOS. My thoughts were that if this was true I could easily give up all my SATA drives for one large 512GB PCIe AHCI SSD. And then move any and all other SATA devices to the USB 3.1 PCIe x4 card I have. All I need to do is put them in USB 3.0 enclosures and they are plenty fast enough for storage needs.

      However, if the 950 really has its own legacy mode option rom built in, then well this seems like the way to go. Very happy you stumbled upon this discovery. Not sure why every where you look they do not show x58 as listed as compatible, when it appears to be "Yes it is".

      @nick29 is your x58 mobo booting from the 950 Pro using the Samsung NVMe drivers? Or are you using the 950 Pro as a storage only device? Thanks for any clarification you can provide.

    • Is this procedure the same for the new firmware released for uPD720201/uPD720202? It was posted on Station Drivers on April 28th, 2015. I tried the new firmware 2026 but it killed my device. When I flashed back to the 2024 firmware it was immediately fixed, yay.

      Now I got to figure out why the new firmware did not take.

      EDIT: OK, I figured it out. I had to remove the Microsoft installed driver, by simply uninstalling the device. When I scanned system to have it find the device again I just installed the latest Renesas-NEC provided driver. Then I tried the new firmware again and it worked perfectly this time. However, after inspecting the newer firmware it appears it was built just 5 months after the last one. So, its not really that much newer. But newer is newer.... lol, after that all I did is search for drivers and it found the new April 24th 2015 driver from Microsoft. So all is well again...

    • Zitat von lordkag im Beitrag #19
      Well, you are limited by both PCIe 2.0 and DMI. That IDE thing is confusing from the beginning. It was IDE, then ATA, then PATA. It can be used for interface, for operation mode and as in compatible mode for SATA. But the term IDE next to SATA shouldn't be mentioned, even if SATA supports IDE emulation. Just because you can emulate something, doesn't mean that you actually support it. So, IDE connector, IDE interface, IDE emulation should be preferred instead of simple IDE, whenever it is possible.

      But back on topic, M.2 is also catching up the wave.

      This thread is about a "software interface protocol" named NVMe and the possibility of enabling it into Legacy BIOS. M.2 is a connector "type" and completely off-topic.

      So, I agree please, lets get back on topic. Can we discuss NVMe and bringing it to the legacy BIOS? I have been thinking about contacting Intel to ask them for help with creating a module we can insert ourselves. Does anyone have any contacts at Intel? I worked for Intel for over a decade but I left in 2001 and not sure my old manager is still there. I would hate to call her after 14 years and ask if she knows anything about NVMe, haha that would be awkward to say the least.

      I will try contacting them on Monday. I am already tired of wondering about this. I need some official word already, lol.

    • Zitat von lordkag im Beitrag #17

      If I'm not mistaken, a PCIe 3.0 x4 will go up to 4000 MBps. And I don't agree with the inclusion of IDE (ATA/PATA) next to SATA

      I'm sorry, I was talking about what it will bring to MY system (our Legacy systems, such as my x58), lol which is PCIe 2.0 (and good enough for me lol). You are right it will be better on PCIe 3.0. Also, I was not talking about IDE as in the connector, but IDE as in the Protocol that AHCI replaced. I have not had a Motherboard with a IDE connector in a very long time, lol. I was only talking about the software protocols a.k.a "IDE > AHCI > NVMe".

      IDE vs AHCI http://www.diffen.com/difference/AHCI_vs_IDE
      AHCI vs NVMe http://www.anandtech.com/show/7843/testi...ess-with-asus/4

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